This transcript is created by a helpful but imperfect transcription bot. Please forgive any typos or errors.

Kaye Putnam 0:00

There is this thing underneath that was dictating whether businesses and brands got results. Or if they just kind of like fizzle then didn’t really see the results or the return on investment that they wanted from their marketing. And I realized that was brand new. So I’ve been on this amazing rabbit hole obsession dirty since then, learning all things about brand building to help entrepreneurs, build brands that impact so many people and literally change the world with what they know.

Melissa Guller 0:33

That’s brand strategist Kaye Putnam. She started working online to have a sense of stability when her husband’s military job kept their family on the move. In her first six months online, she struggled to sell even the $97 copywriting service. But then everything clicked into place when Kaye discovered the brand archetypes framework. And since 2013 Ks business has grown excellent Eventually, by helping business owners get clarity on their brands based on their archetype. But branding is about way more than just colors or images. So in today’s episode, Kaye explains how the 12 archetypes can help you make strategic psychology based decisions about your business. And she talks about how to route your branding and who you are not just what’s trending. She talks about the blend of courses and one on one services in her business, and how they each serve a unique audience. And of course, k talks all about how understanding your brand can truly help your business grow. It’s all coming up in today’s episode of Everything is Teachable.

Announcer 1:46
Welcome to Everything is Teachable, the podcast that takes you behind-the-scenes to learn how everyday creators have transformed their skills and passions into online courses and businesses. To introduce this week’s guest, here’s your host, Melissa Guller.

Melissa Guller 2:05

Hey everyone, I’m Melissa from Team Teachable. And today I’m excited to be here with Kaye Putnam. Okay as a psychology driven brand strategist for entrepreneurs, and through work with hundreds of clients from global brands to solo business owners, she developed The Clarity Code. Okay believes in pursuing audacious dreams and that there is genius that lives inside every entrepreneur. When you have a clear brand, your clients love respect and are willing to pay premium prices for your work. And it gives you the clarity and confidence to scale your impact and your income. Okay, welcome to the podcast.

Kaye Putnam 2:50

Thank you so much for having me, Melissa. I am so excited to geek out of all thing courses and branding today.

Melissa Guller 2:57

Yes, me too. So Before we get into what I’m sure listeners are excited about all the branding, the fun stuff that will come later in this episode. I’d love to start by learning more about you and your business. So even long before you were a brand strategist, I saw that you actually started your first business at 16. So maybe Can you take us all the way back to your entrepreneurial journeys start.

Kaye Putnam 3:21

I have been obsessed with the magic of business for as long as I can remember. I when I first started that business, it was a wedding and portrait photography business. I actually had to have my mom sign up for my paypal account because I was too young. That stayed with my paypal account for a really long time. They wouldn’t let me change it. Little relic from the past. So I did that business for the four years from a high school senior almost all the way till the end of college. While I got my marketing and psychology degree. I actually got really burnt out learned a lot about profit and loss. That is important when you’re running businesses and took a few years off Entrepreneurship during the corporate world, in sales, and then marketing with some traditional media, I worked in radio for a while. And my husband at the time was in the military, which meant that we were going to be moving every two years and having to start over. So I started my online business in 2013, out of necessity, because I knew that I couldn’t do the thing where I just kept quitting a job and then having to spend six months finding the next one. So when we moved for the second time, and I had my first son, I started working online. So I started with a digital marketing agency that I worked for and realized, both in the traditional media world and then in the digital agency that there was this thing underneath that was dictating whether businesses and brands got results, or if they just kind of like fizzled and didn’t really see the results or the return on investment that they wanted from their marketing and I realized That was brand new. So I’ve been on this amazing rabbit hole obsession dirty since then learning all things about brand building to help entrepreneurs, build brands that impact so many people and literally change the world with what they know.

Melissa Guller 5:18

I love that. And before we dive into I know there’s so much to unpack with the branding, but in your earliest days, I know for the six months at the start of your business, it was a bit of a struggle. So why do you think in the beginning, it was harder for you to get things off the ground?

Kaye Putnam 5:34

I was so awkward. first started online. I was looking at everybody that was successful and I was incorrectly taking inspiration from all of them. Like Okay, this entrepreneur has this like motivating athlete persona. I’m like, I’m an athlete. I’ll have a YouTube series called your Monday morning kick in the pants. And then another entrepreneur was like very feminine, very luxurious traveled objects. like, Okay, I’m gonna name my signature service, finding your it factor. And this went on and on. And I was like trying to live in all these identities that weren’t really myself. And consumers are smart people who are buying online are admittedly a little bit cautious, because it could be anybody. And they sense that disconnect. So I didn’t sell anything. I think I sold maybe like 111 hundred dollar service, the first six months of business because I was just feeling my way around in the dark.

Melissa Guller 6:33

Yeah, and I think for a lot of us, we do start by emulating others because we see something out there and we’re like, Ooh, that’s working. Let me try it out. So I think it’s a really like smart gut instinct to do but as obviously you found it didn’t quite work out.

Kaye Putnam 6:49

No, it didn’t

Melissa Guller 6:51

Now I know there was a turning point for you though, right? things did make a turn for the best. So what was that moment for you where you felt like things really picked up for your business?

Kaye Putnam 7:01

This might sound a little bit cheesy, but the bar none biggest epiphany moment that I’ve had my business was when I discovered this tool. It’s called brand archetypes. And like I mentioned I had been, I’d studied psychology in college. So I immediately was attracted to this idea that there are these universal unconscious patterns in everything that we see, you know, from TV to movie to the brands that we love and buy from. And as soon as I discovered that, that construct that framework, I became even more obsessed with branding. And I realized that I needed to figure out what my brand archetype was. So I created the first iteration of my brand quiz, which is still on my site today, and use that as a tool for myself because I was in that awkward emulating phase that like awkward teenage years for my business, to figure out what my strongest message was. And I liken it to like a swimming upstream before and then once I figured out who I really was and what my strongest message was, It was like our swimming with the current all the sudden, and things started happening a lot more quickly.

Melissa Guller 8:05

Maybe to give us an example, what is your archetype? or What did you discover about yourself?

Kaye Putnam 8:09

Mm hmm. So I’m a blend of the magician, and the sage archetypes. The Magician is all about change, inner power transformation. And Sage is the teacher.

Melissa Guller 8:20

I can see how that may have led you to start teaching people online not to spoil the plot of where this episode is going. But tell us more maybe about the whole. I know there are 12 different types. So how did it work for you? Is that a strategy that you built out the 12 archetypes or was it something that you had already discovered?

Kaye Putnam 8:37

Yeah, so I didn’t define the 12 archetypes that come from a book I realized later written by Carol Pearson and Margaret mark, and they define these 12 archetypes. I found them on this website. It looks like it was built in like 1995 on geo cities. So it didn’t properly credit them at the time when I discovered them. And it just had like a loose description of what the most innovations, the fears like the patterns of each of the 12 or so the more I dug into them, I realized that like Nike, for example, is the hero archetype. Wall Street Journal would be the sage, Disney is more of the magician, Adobe is the creator. And there’s these 12 different archetypes that match up with these characters that we see all you know, all around our life. And how did you start incorporating that into your business? They all correspond to symbolism, I think is the easiest way to explain it. So there are colors, there’s words, there are things that elicit emotional reactions in humans because we’ve been conditioned to respond to things it’s kind of like a shortcut to understanding. So once I realized which archetypes I was, I started researching and developing my own bank of ideas for what outward facing brand cues those archetypes corresponded with. So this spoiler alert fast forward to later when we’re talking about courses. I Actually curated 12 different libraries of inspiration for each of these archetypes because like I said, total nerd obsession here. But I started recognizing them like walking to the grocery store, walking through the mall and just collecting all of these different examples of how the different archetypes show up in Brad’s, in particular.

Melissa Guller 10:20

And I know also, we mentioned the quiz that’s on your site. But I think something that’s so unique about this approach is that when people start to identify with the archetype, and then they start to see all this info that you’re collecting, I feel like it must be this offer them like, Oh, this really feels like me. Yeah, and a lot of people

Kaye Putnam 10:38

tap into these ideas unconsciously or innately because they are connected to universal human desires, like the desire for truth or love or community are represented by each of the different archetypes. So it’s things that people do naturally, but if you’re like me, you’re probably a multifaceted human being and you don’t know what to bring forward and your brand archetypes can be a really fantastic tool to help you figure out what your strongest personality and message is.

Melissa Guller 11:05

And as anyone who’s learned from you knows brand is so much more than design. But since that’s often a misunderstanding, can you help our listeners understand, like, What does their brand really mean? Mm hmm. Your brand is who you are. I call myself the

Kaye Putnam 11:20

psychology driven brand strategist, because I think it’s so important to build your brand on truth, not on trends. So a lot of people will go out and do that emulation game that I did in the beginning of my business and like, Oh, I like this style logo. I like these colors, but they’re not based in the foundational truth of their brand. So you have to figure out that truth first. So that’s how I approach branding, we figure out the personality, the position, the unique point of view, the vision, the purpose, all of those things need to be figured out for your brand first, and then you can translate all of that into the design language or the actual written spoken language that you use to describe your brand.

Melissa Guller 11:59

He I think that’s probably a flip of what most people assume, which is that it would start with the visual. And then from that lens, I think branding probably stresses out a lot of new entrepreneurs or even longtime entrepreneurs if they don’t feel like that’s their strong suit. So why do you think so many creators have such a hard time getting clarity on their branding?

Kaye Putnam 12:20

for a couple reasons. First, it’s really hard to see yourself clearly. And that’s another reason why I like the archetypes as a tool because it gives you a mirror, it gives you a lens to look back at. Because when we’re thinking about our own strengths, it’s almost like looking in like a circus funhouse mirror. Like, it’s just, it’s not an accurate representation of what everybody else sees. So that’s one piece of it. And then second, like we were saying, when you’re trying to choose a design theme or a way to express yourself, it can feel really arbitrary if you don’t have all of that core stuff figured out. So it’s really an inside out process as opposed to just looking good, huh?

Melissa Guller 12:57

Yeah. It makes a lot of sense to hear you describe it, and I think that Fun Home mirror, that image really stands out to me too. So, thinking about your business itself, I’d love to learn more. So you started using this archetype foundation in your business? And how did things kind of evolve from there? What did your business look like?

Kaye Putnam 13:18

So at first, like I said, I was working with a digital marketing agency and contracting for them. And then slowly, I started adding more of my own one on one clients, too. So I was applying what I was learning with the archetypes to all of these brands that I was working with. So I was helping them to find their brand strategy, helping them show up as their best selves. And I started my first business, like I said, right after I had my first baby, and then we were expecting our second baby. And I realized that my time was going to become much more scarce and I wasn’t going to be able to impact and help people in the same capacity that I had been up to that point. So back in 2015, is when I launched my first online course. And then these days, my, my business is pretty much half and half, I still work with one on one clients on what I call my agency side of the business. And then I have a whole robust core side of the business, which is the other half.

Melissa Guller 14:11

Mm hmm. So let’s talk about the online course itself. So the first time you bought your course, what was that experience like for you? or What did you enjoy? or What did you find maybe challenging.

Kaye Putnam 14:22

I started building my online course. Apparently, I’m a procrastinator because I had about 12 weeks left before my due date with that second child. And I had that realization that I needed to be able to leverage what I knew not just my time, and so I set out with this like, really robust, really complicated launch plan. But as the weeks were dwindling down, I realized that I was procrastinating is a really big project and it feels really intense to put all of your life’s work into a single course. And then be there’s just all of these different moving pieces that you could use to launch a course and I, in the end scale that way back made it much more simple and kept it just to the minimum viable process to getting the outcome that I was promising. And I launched that right at the end of 2015.

Melissa Guller 15:14

I think it’s so important that you mentioned that there’s a lot of things you could do to launch a course, because there’s a lot of advice out there. And a lot of different approaches work really well for different people. But I think a big part of being a creator is editing and deciding all the things that you aren’t going to do instead of just the things that you are going to do. Totally. And that’s

Kaye Putnam 15:37

one of the reasons why you get into entrepreneurship in the first place. And like on more of a macro level, if you want to work out in the middle of the day, you should be able to do that because you’re now an entrepreneur or if you want to take an afternoon nap, you should be able to do that because you’re an entrepreneur and then on that micro level, we shouldn’t be building the businesses that everybody says that we should build, we should build the ones that really light us up and suit our strengths as opposed to the blueprint or template that everybody else is using?

Melissa Guller 16:07

Mm hmm. Well said. So to give people maybe a sense of things when you launched the first time, What did it look like? How many students did you get? And how was that experience for those students?

Kaye Putnam 16:19

So when I first launched, I think I had an email list of about 3000 people, because the quiz had been around for a period of time at this point. So that had been building my list while I was working with all those one on one clients. And it was this whole backwards process of knowing that I wanted to launch the course doing what I could in that timeframe that I could to launch it, and I made it so it didn’t have any live component. It was just delivered over a course platform at that point because I was about to have a new board. And it went well. I launched it at like an introductory pricing. The course that I first launched way back then is now a 900 and $97 course but back then it was only 297 because I was still collecting the credibility pieces that I needed to sell it later. The testimonials, the results, all of those things. And I think we ended up with 19 people in that first round, which I was thrilled with.

Melissa Guller 17:16

I was gonna say that’s great. I mean, imagine 19 people sitting in a classroom, that’s a very full room.

Kaye Putnam 17:21

Totally. I love that perspective when you’re looking at like your email list or how many people you sell a course to, because when you actually are impacting that many people’s lives, and you can imagine like a room or like a football stadium or something like that, it really brings an incredible perspective.

Melissa Guller 17:38

Totally. So you had your first 19 students and I also love that you mentioned that your pricing has changed because I know pricing is such a hot topic about online courses. So you started at an introductory like this 297 prices you mentioned, how did the price and the course itself then kind of evolve over the years So much.

Kaye Putnam 18:02

And this is the beauty of online courses. I love online courses because you have this opportunity to, well, a just get what you know out of your head so that somebody doesn’t have to have a physical or like real time conversation with you to learn from you. But also you get to improve that as you learn and grow over time. So that first version of the course, basically looks like nothing of the version of the course. Now I’ve been adding bonuses and new modules and reformatting the structure and adding more live components and resources and all of those things to support the higher price and the better student experience. At one point, I think it was a year and a half ago, I re recorded the entire thing. And I’ve done that a few times in this process.

Melissa Guller 18:47

I love hearing you describe the course almost as an evolution because I think when you imagine an online course, it could feel like oh, you make the course once you put it out there. That’s that but this mindset of Oh Start with something that’s your introductory offer. And then know that over time, you’re going to tweak things here and there, you’re going to add in more content. Something about that feels not just more accessible, but almost more fun to me.

Kaye Putnam 19:12

Totally, totally. Because I mean, if you’re a human being right, like you are evolving, you are learning so much as you go along. And what an incredible benefit for those first students that took a bet on you to receive the benefit of your continuing learning and growth.

Melissa Guller 19:28

Mm hmm. Great point. And I know you also mentioned that you started adding in live components. So can you tell us more about what that makes of pre recorded versus live looks like now,

Kaye Putnam 19:39

I have experimented with basically every combination of those two things. So I’ve run that that first course it’s called brand new brand, several times live more recently, it is an evergreen course for me but I still give those students like a monthly live call and a student community that I host on Facebook that they’re able to talk To get feedback and questions answered, and all those good things,

Melissa Guller 20:03

in terms of somebody who’s maybe making a course, for the first time, would you recommend that they start with some of those other components? Or if I was making a brand new course today, what maybe advice would you offer in terms of what I should be creating?

Kaye Putnam 20:18

I love having live components, especially for new courses, because you get so much valuable real time feedback from the students that are going through your process. So you have the ability to improve your course, just in that first time that you run it. So I think that it’s really valuable to

Melissa Guller 20:37

have that real time feedback that live community aspect because it adds more value to the course and you’re getting that that feedback loop. So I wouldn’t run brand new brand right now evergreen if I hadn’t already run it a bunch of times live and gotten that proven feedback and results from students think that’s such a great point because every course creator starts from zero no course and that bad. benefit of the real time feedback, I feel like that’s so huge. And if you are running it in that kind of live style or elements that are alive, surely the course will end up better by the end. And then the next time, it’ll be even stronger, you’ll have those great success stories. And maybe for somebody who’s listening today, it could feel like that might be the right approach.

Kaye Putnam 21:20

It’s the curse of the expert, because we understand our craft, you know, whether it’s business or art or whatever you’re teaching your course on, you understand it at such a higher level than the students that you’re teaching. So a lot of what we take for granted, or that’s intuitive to us, you’re going to get questions about it. And it’s so valuable to add that stuff to the course, when you get those questions and that feedback.

Melissa Guller 21:43

I hadn’t thought about that. And I know for a lot of people teaching is a new skill. Like we have the skill that’s going into the course like for you. It’s brand new, but for all of us teaching online can be very new. So I think that’s important to note that you won’t realize maybe you gloss over something because it seems so obvious to you, but then everyone in your course is like, Wait back it up

Kaye Putnam 22:03

totally. Or like you come up with new stories or metaphors, or you get better equipment to record it, all of the things are going to improve over time. So give yourself that grace to improve your product over time to Well said.

Melissa Guller 22:18

Now, earlier, you also mentioned that you have courses as part of your business, but also one on one work. So to give people a sense of what your overall business looks like, Can you just kind of talk us through the different offerings that you have? Yeah.

Kaye Putnam 22:34

I love doing both. I don’t think it’s the right move for everybody. It’s kind of a complicated business model, to be honest. But the work that I do with my one on one clients helps me create better courses. So I love that ecosystem of having both. So these days, my one on one clients are typically more established entrepreneurs in the six to seven figure range, and I’m helping them not only define their brand strategy with them, but then bring it to life. With writers and copywriters and developers over all of the different touch points of their brand, so I call that my clarity code process. And then over on the course side of things, I now have three main courses brand new one, that one that I started with, that’s my signature. It’s basically my client process in a course. So from A to Z, how to build a brand from scratch. And then I’ve added 12 archetype courses, which I call brand fluency based off of the quiz archetypes that are in the quiz. And then just recently, last fall, I added another course called branded Vantage, which is a 30 day momentum building sprints just to get people in action growing their brand.

Melissa Guller 23:39

I noticed you you mentioned that the people you’re working with one on one, it’s a slightly different person, maybe then somebody’s buying your course maybe a different point in their business compared to somebody who is maybe earlier Am I getting this right? Maybe somebody who’s kind of at the start of their business for the course.

Kaye Putnam 23:56

Yes, totally. And that’s been such a blast. saying it’s such an amazing gift to have the courses to be able to still serve those people that are in more of the beginning stages of their business. Because as I was growing in my own skills and scaling my own business, adding to my team doing those things that made my I needed to increase the profit in my business, because my expenses were increasing to provide a better value and output for my clients. I was pricing myself out of that beginner market, and I hated that I didn’t want to leave those people to fend for themselves. So the courses have given me a great way to serve those people and still create the best brands possible for the clients that I’m working with one on one.

Melissa Guller 24:39

I think that’s such an important point. Because what can be tricky about only serving clients or only having courses is that inevitably, you can’t serve everyone. The price point won’t make sense either way to have a sustainable business depending on what you’re up to. But I love hearing more about your mix of doing both because I wonder maybe if some listeners are current only doing one to one work and wondering about courses? Or maybe they’ve started with courses and are wondering Hmm, but how can I serve a different audience? Maybe somebody who’s more established at a higher price point. So I think it’s really helpful to hear you talk through how both kind of fit into your business overall.

Kaye Putnam 25:17

Yeah, it’s worked really well. For me, I love having high ticket services, because I still love just working with people. We were talking before we started recording about how isolated we feel right now in quarantine. So my one on one clients Give me that connection, like that human element of business and also allows me to keep my finger on the pulse of what’s happening right now in branding. But yeah, the courses have their own set of amazing benefits and incredible students that I get to serve there too.

Melissa Guller 25:43

And it’s nice to because I think in a business of all one to one clients all the time, I imagine that it could lead to either feeling burned out or feeling like you can’t make the revenue potential that you want, if you’re limited by hours in the day, not necessarily just kind of playing an extreme and then on And if you’re only doing courses, then you don’t really get to interact with people. And maybe you don’t get to learn the way that you’re talking about, like, what are the trends? What are the questions that people are asking? And so it’s kind of a nice middle ground to have a little bit of both.

Kaye Putnam 26:14

Exactly. If you’re the person that has a lot of one on one services, and you really want to take a vacation or have a baby, those kinds of things, courses are a great way to help you bridge that gap.

Melissa Guller 26:25

Totally. So let’s talk a little bit more about just the world of online business, since a big goal of ours is to help people just kind of see what’s possible and understand it a little bit better. So what does your life look like running your online business even like day to day?

Kaye Putnam 26:41

That’s a great question. I have the personality type. I love to work on different projects all the time. I hate doing what I call the business dishes. I like solving big problems and different problems all of the time. And thankfully, I’ve set up a business model to be able to do that. So I transition between having group calls for my students. I have my class calls with my one on one clients. I’m delegating with my team on the agency side of things. And then one of my favorite things in the world to do is to create content. So I’m creating YouTube videos. And I have a team that helps me repurpose those into the blog posts and the articles that we have on our site. And then creating launches. So I have this cool mix on the core side of things of, I have a lot of evergreen sales, but then I also do launches just because I like them. And they add a nice bump in revenue. So we just got done, like hosting a free challenge called type quest, where we had people find examples of their archetype in the world. And I’ll come together and community to do that together. And it was a blast. It’s so much fun to have online events like that. So I love creating those.

Melissa Guller 27:42

I love the challenge model actually, and I would love to have you maybe talk us through that a little bit more. So can you just share the strategy of that launch and kind of take us through it?

Kaye Putnam 27:53

Totally. I’ve been honing this in for the last couple of launches, and I really love having a either three Our four day challenge. And then the either the fourth or the fifth day is your webinar. And it has worked exceptionally well for me because you get to gather people together create a lot of excitement, a lot of energy, a lot of communication in, in my case, my facebook group. So it just attracts a lot of attention in general. And then you have that that group of really interested people really engaged people to invite to the webinar where you’re going to make the offer for the course or the whatever you’re selling. And that just has worked fabulously well for me.

Melissa Guller 28:33

What’s fun about the challenge, too, is that it is fun, like yours was almost adventure II scavenger hunt. And I’m sure people really loved participating whether or not they bought at the end, they probably walked away from that experience having really positive vibes about you and your brand.

Kaye Putnam 28:48

Exactly. I adopted this nerdy Sherlock Holmes persona for the entire week. I literally asked myself before I was like when I was designing the challenge and like what would make this really fun on like, I should be Sherlock Holmes. I went on a hunt around my house to find my husband’s grandpa’s old tobacco pipe to no avail. I couldn’t find it. But I did adopt my famous hats that I wear every day and had a fun, fun time with that challenge.

Melissa Guller 29:16

Oh gosh, I was gonna say I was literally imagining you holding up one of those monocles to one eye and just kind of peering out to say, what can we do today?

Announcer 29:25

That was the vibe.

Kaye Putnam 29:27

Yeah, it was so funny. Like you said, I mean, not everybody buys, but you can still create a really incredible brand experience for people and do that in a way that just suits your personality.

Melissa Guller 29:40

Mm hmm. And what’s great about I hate to call it a sales strategy. It is a sales strategy though, is that a lot of people maybe are hesitant to sell and they feel like selling feels gross. I don’t want to push this upon other people. But when you take an approach like this with a challenge, people are going to get so much value out of it and they won’t mind the sale. The they’ll decide if they want to join or not. And for some people, it’ll be really exciting. They’ll feel really amped from the challenge they’ll want to join. And that’ll be a great choice. But other people won’t feel like you’ve just been pushing your product on them for a week, they’ll still feel like you value them and you were giving them something.

Kaye Putnam 30:15

Exactly. You get to create a lot of goodwill and momentum, and then lead into your sales pitch, which is just telling people, hey, if you want to learn more about what we’ve just been teaching over the last several days, I have a way like a shortcut for you to do that. And here’s what it is.

Melissa Guller 30:33

I love hearing you use the word shortcut because it Teachable. We talk about that all the time about how people don’t buy online courses, because they want tons of videos and all of this work to do. What they’re really buying from you is a shortcut to an outcome. They want your expertise. They want the thing at the end of the road, and your course is what will help them get there.

Kaye Putnam 30:53

Totally, I mean, so much information is Google Mobile. We can find it for free on youtuber on any of the millions of websites or web pages that are out there, your course is the path of least resistance. It’s a small investment, or maybe it’s a big investment in saving time to get to that outcome. Like you said, it’s an amazing, amazing way to shortcut your learning. I buy courses all the time for that reason, because I don’t want to spend endless hours going down rabbit holes trying to piece together something myself, I’d much rather learn from somebody who’s been there and done that.

Melissa Guller 31:28

Mm hmm. could not agree more. I also want to talk a little bit about he mentioned the team that you have. So I’m curious to hear kind of as your business evolved, how or when did you start bringing in other people as well?

Kaye Putnam 31:43

Oh, I was a bad manager. In the beginning, I kept hearing from everybody that you needed to have team members that you needed to delegate senior zone of genius. And that in itself is its own skill set that I had to learn. So I think I started with just a virtual assistant a couple years ago, and I ended up having to like Like redo all of this woman’s work and she was fabulous, she was great, it was totally my error. And because I was never been clear about exactly what it was, so I realized through that process that I needed to do two things. First, I needed to set really clear brand standards. So I set out to write all of my beliefs, all of my point of view statements, all of the different standards that I have for the visual aspect of my brand and the written aspect of my brand, all in one place. So that helps immensely. I create one of those standards. It’s now a website used to be a PDF. I call it a brand source book for all of my one on one clients now. So having something like that it’s basically a sap for your brand allows you to empower your team to be your brand with you, as opposed to you being the bottleneck and the only person who can effectively be your brand. So that was one lesson that I had to learn and then these days I have grown into By brand, depending on the current situation, but right now I have a content manager who writes and repurchases the bulk of our content, I basically just do what I call our source content, which is my YouTube videos. And she repurchases and writes the supporting pieces from those videos and distributes them everywhere else. And then I still do most of my own launch content. And then we have quite a few contractors that I work with on the agency side. So developers, designers, all sorts of wonderful humans over there that helped bring our clients brands to life.

Melissa Guller 33:33

I think it’s helpful to hear you lay out the need for really clear brand standards. And I love that you said it empowers your team because I do think that as your business grows, bringing in more people is a great choice for a lot of people but if you’ve never managed people before, or never managed people in this way before, there is I think like a little push and pull about Okay, how do I get this person who’s brand new to my business, my baby To understand what we’re doing here, and just giving really clear information is maybe an obvious thing to say, but probably not an obvious thing to do.

Kaye Putnam 34:10

Yeah, I mean, it took me several months of failed projects to realize that I wasn’t saving any time by delegating this work, and then redoing the work like that’s a broken model, right? Obviously, there was something wrong. And I’m not the type of person like my personality type. I just don’t like micromanaging. I don’t like I’m not very detail oriented when it comes to managing. And the brand standards are such an amazing way. It was, it was just a great way for me to get what I knew out of my head, so other people could take it and run with it. Mm hmm. That makes perfect sense.

Melissa Guller 34:45

I also want to just touch on maybe some misconceptions about your business. So what do you think some people assume about your business or even about branding that is just playing around.

Kaye Putnam 34:55

We touched on one already that it was just designed right then it’s just how you look. So that The main one that I’ve been trying to main myth that I’ve been trying to bust for my entire branding career. I think another misconception is the stage in which you brand or the stage in which you hire it out. I think it’s really important to get to know yourself and your audience on your own. I think it’s helpful to have a process. But I think it’s even more helpful for you to be the person that’s deciding what your brand is, at least in the very beginning stages. I think some people jump into investing in brands and investing in like pushing it off or like pushing off some of those decisions on a quote unquote expert, whether that’s a designer or a strategist without really thinking about what they want or who they are, how they want to serve the world. So I always recommend that people actually are in business for a while and especially for my one on one clients before they come to me to get the whole enchilada done for them.

Melissa Guller 35:54

I haven’t really thought about that before but that makes perfect sense because probably if you invite somebody in On day one, then a lot of your own voice that needed maybe a little bit of time to develop this gonna get possibly pushed to the side.

Kaye Putnam 36:07

Exactly. And figuring out who your ideal client is, is kind of like dating, relationship wise, you have this list of attributes that you wish that your partner would have. But when you get out in the real world, you might find that Oh, like, this person is great on paper, but I don’t really actually enjoy working with them or, or teaching them I maybe would like to work with this other person. So it’s kind of this trial and error process in the beginning, that once you go through that you get come out the other side, so much more clear about who you want to be and who wants to start.

Melissa Guller 36:37

I’m like internally chuckling about this dating comparison. But it’s so true. I think so much of business is like dating because there’s not like a right or wrong in the way that there’s not one person on the planet who’s like the perfect partner and just about finding who suits you and mutually suiting each other. And there’s a lot of trial and error, like there’s a lot of first dates that probably aren’t going to work out for you and your business, but that’s okay. You’re gonna learn?

Kaye Putnam 37:03

Exactly. And similar to dating often you have to figure out who you are. And you have to develop that own self certainty in their own self love before you’re really ready to jump into that relationship with somebody else. So right, well, you can’t send out a contractor to date for you. Unfortunately, you got to go out there, you got to do it.

Melissa Guller 37:22

Well, as we start to wrap up, I love to maybe get some advice. So if you are starting an online business today, what would you do in those first couple of months to really set yourself up for success?

Kaye Putnam 37:35

I think especially in the first couple of months, it’s really important to get into action and imperfect action at that. So yes, you’re going to need to learn what your brand is. Yes, you’re going to need to learn who you’re selling to and how to speak to them. But I think a lot of that happens with I like to call them your IPO habits. This is from my my brand advantage course. It’s Focus on how you can improve your brand or your life or your energy every day, figure out what you’re going to publish. So you can actually develop that brand voice through staying in action. And then practice making offers because your business is going to be built on making offers, whether that’s an offer to collaborate with somebody else to get in front of somebody else’s audience, or literally to sell your product or service. So I think if you just focus on being your brand, especially in those first few months, you’ll have that incredible base of knowledge and insight to be able to shape your brand as you move forward later in your business career.

Melissa Guller 38:38

I love that I love that IPO improve publish offer, and that’s super helpful. Thank you. As we do kind of wrap up here, I want to let people know how they can connect with you. So where can people either connect with you or learn more?

Kaye Putnam 38:53

So I’m a good online marketer. So if you search my name Kpop now you’ll find me in lots of places I recommend. definitely take them quiz, the brand quiz on my site. It’s a great moment of insight for figuring out how you want to show up online. It’s a great place to start.

Melissa Guller 39:09

Yeah, and we’ll definitely include a link in the show notes as well. So, as we do wrap up, do you have any final words of wisdom or inspiration for our listeners? I just want

Kaye Putnam 39:18

to thank everybody who’s listening for taking this leap or even considering taking this leap because the world truly does need what you know. And you putting yourself out here is no small feat. So keep doing what you’re doing and just know that I’m in your corner rooting for you.

Melissa Guller 39:38

Thank you so much for joining us this week. You can learn more about Kaye Putnam, her brand archetypes quiz and Teachable in the show notes at that’s

Melissa Guller 39:55

Before you go, make sure you subscribe to our podcast so you can receive new episodes right? When they’re released, you can either subscribe right in your favorite podcast app we were listening now, or you can sign up for email alerts at Teachable calm slash podcast. And if you’re enjoying the show, I hope you’ll let us know. We love reading through your reviews and Apple podcasts. And if you have a minute to spare, we’d love to read yours too. On behalf of Teachable We hope you enjoyed this episode about branding with K Putnam. We’ll see you in the next episode of Everything is Teachable.

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